whynot | Dimas and Satrio's Excellent Adventure

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Dimas and Satrio's Excellent Adventure

dark_agenda because do you know how long I've been threatening to write Indonesian!Winchesters? Since March, apparently. And then I missed the July 2 posting deadline because I was off celebrating someone else's independence day. LOL. Better late than never! ALSO, the icon for my Dreamwidth post is pretty much the appropriatest in many ways. Someone randomly made a map of Indonesia the background for a Winchesters icon, and hey! Now it's time for Indochesters.

I have grand plans to write more in this 'verse, but here are two ficlets for now. 'Verse summary: They follow the trail of the thing that killed their mother from West Java, Indonesia to the USA. This is Satrio. This is Dimas. Handy-dandy Indonesian/Sundanese translations are here.

North for the Winter
Pre-series. One of the few times their father took them north in the wintertime. "Do we even have a word for snow?" 590 words.

Jejak Kaki
Early S1. Brothers on the road, rediscovering. The title means 'footprints'. "It's not that Satrio has anything against his mothertongue, but Dimas speaks it like he's making a point." Also 590 words.

And now for some cultural identity soapboxing!

Differing attitudes about multilingualism is something I brought up in my aforelinked post about Indonesian!Winchesters, wherein I realized that to racebend them into Indonesian immigrants, I had to languagebend as well. In the USA, the kind of multilingual exchanges that Dimas and Satrio have seem to be associated almost exclusively with immigrant/multicultural families. Sure, both Indonesia and the USA have their lingua franca (Indonesian and English respectively), but Indonesia also has hundreds of living languages, several of them older than the lingua franca itself. A lot of people grow up speaking the regional language(s) alongside Indonesian.

As an exercise, I tried writing SPN fic in Indonesian, and one of the things that struck me was how compelled I was to have Sam and Dean switch between Indonesian and Sundanese. It's pretty common in Indonesia to switch between Indonesian and the regional language, but I was weirded out writing it because Supernatural, like much of the media I consume, is adamantly monolingual. But it's like, if I were writing SPN fic in Indonesian (and not even with Indonesian!Winchesters! Even if I were still writing about white American Winchesters, but in Indonesian), I couldn't have it be 'authentic' or whatever without also having Sam and Dean slip into Sundanese occasionally. And that's just 'cos I'm from West Java. If I were from Sumatra, Sam and Dean might slip into Batak, and if they were from Bali, they might slip into Balinese. I love to complain about how stiff and formal Indonesian subtitles for movies and television are, but I guess it makes sense now that I think about it. If the subtitles were gonna include slang and authentic cadences, which region's slang and cadence would they go with?

I reckon one of the things about American bilingualism is that there seems to be this tendency to assume that the non-dominant language is imported. In the US, the Spanish comes from Latin America, the Mandarin from China, etc. In Indonesia, languages like Javanese and Sundanese have been around for over a thousand years. Indonesian is the new kid on the block, its current incarnation having branched off from Malaysian during colonial times and standardized under the self-interested eye of the Dutch. This is not to say that Sundanese and other regional languages have remained unchanged throughout the years, and neither is it to say that these languages coexist without hierarchy and threat, but that is a whole 'nother kettle of fish for another time. My point is that multilingualism is more the norm in Indonesia than it is in the USA, and I reckon part of it is because in Indonesia, it is not perceived to be a sign of foreignness.

So now throw English into the mix! My family and I talk pretty much like how Dimas and Satrio talk, except not about killing monsters. A sentence has at least two languages, and we conjugate interlingually. Convention seems to favor monolingual stories, and translation seems to assume Language1-to-Language2 transitions. For purposes of this project, however, I decided to keep Dimas and Satrio's dialogue multilingual. After all, if your default is Indonesian and English, how do you decide which parts of your identity to italicize?

I've also been wanting to write Indonesian!Pevensies since a year ago. That's still on the to-do list, as is Muslim Indonesian Jimmy Novak. I also just signed up for

mundane_bingo and

spnsupporting because I am a crazy person. I've yet to get my bingo card, but my spnsupporting characters are pretty predictable.

[originally posted at http://whynot.dreamwidth.org/27062.html |

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Huh, wow. Fascinating.

How do Indonesian authors of published fiction deal with multilingualism? Are the regional tongues intelligible to people from other areas? What about local Indonesian TV shows (I'm thinking particularly narrative shows)- do they incorporate the regional languages, or stick to the lingua franca?

Indonesian authors of published fiction

* authors of published fiction in indonesian language(s), rather.

From what I've seen, they usually choose not to deal with it. We got bahasa sastra, which translates to kinda like 'literary language' and it is kind of a correct and precise Indonesian. This is changing though, and there are now more homegrown writers that incorporate local vernacular.

Are the regional tongues intelligible to people from other areas?
Depends! There are various types of Sundanese in West Java, so the people who speak them might understand each other for the most part. However, I do not understand Javanese at all, much to the chagrin of my dad. Actually I don't understand any other regional language in Indonesia, so. The alphabets also vastly differ. For example, Javanese script looks like Sanskrit, but Batak script is more cuneiform-like.

re: local Indonesian TV shows. Usually they stick to the lingua franca, with the occasional phrase in the vernacular. But! Recently there was a soap opera called 'Muslimah' that routinely spoke in FOUR languages -- Indonesian, English, Sundanese, and Arabic. The last three were subtitled in Indonesian. It was a crap show but I love that it had all these languages!

I find that what little Bahasa Indonesia I know (I managed to puzzle out most of the bits from your fics! Go me!) goes a lot further in Malaysia than it does in Indonesia, especially outside the cities where my understanding of what people are saying to me drops from about 50% to maybe 10%. Because there's all those variations of the regional languages, too! I don't know much about Sundanese, but I remember being amazed by Javanese and how there's all different levels of formality in that that are separate again from Indonesian. I'm in awe of the ability to mix and match it all, really.

In conclusion: please write Muslim Indonesian Jimmy.

I don't know what the case is in Malaysia, but spoken Indonesian is so, so different from written Indonesian, and far from at all correct. I know this can be said of most languages, but I think the difference is exacerbated by how the mainstream Indonesian media tries to have characters speak Indonesian like it's written. But this goes back to how if you were gonna have the characters speaking authentic vernacular, whose vernacular will you have them speak? So people kinda of end up speaking like Spocktiel.

Sundanese also has those levels of formality, and it makes my head spin sometimes. I wonder if this is at all related to how it's common to refer to yourself in the third person.

Jimi Nasrudin is def on the docket.

Jimi Nasrudin FTW!

*wants badly*

This is so interesting. I am super jealous because poor Anjali has failed to learn like three languages now, or at least failed to retain them after the schooling stopped. I have a couple friends who grew up speaking other languages, and it's fascinating because I almost never hear one of them speak in her native tongue to her parents, while the other one slips in and out of Mandarin and English much as you described above.

Obviously, the monolingualism in the US is also partially a factor of political considerations ("English as the National Language! We are scared of these Immigrants Taking Over!"). However, I just spent several months babysitting for a toddler, and it was astounding to me (in a good way) how many children's shows today are devoted to teaching another language (Dora the Explorer, Diego, there's another one that teaches Chinese).

Of course, there are parents, especially educated upper-middle class parents, tend to view learning languages as another way to get their kids ahead in life. But one can only hope that a by-product of this is that we end up producing a new generation of kids for whom multiculturalism isn't so Foreign and Scary after all.

That's really interesting and awesome about kids shows that encourage multilingualism. What's the one that teaches Chinese?

a new generation of kids for whom multiculturalism isn't so Foreign and Scary after all.
This. A second language not just as a tool, but a way of being.

I don't remember the name unfortunately of the one that teaches Chinese. But it was very cute. And it was also cute to see the two-year-old I babysit for chanting "Ni hao!"

Agreed.

Edited 2010-07-08 02:50 (UTC)

Dimas yang kacak! *pengsan*

Boleh ku peluk? *grin*

Yay that you finally writes Indo!Winchesters!

*hops off to look*

Peluk semaumu! Setelah kamu, giliranku. XD

I am very much looking forward to reading these, and your casting is amazingly spot on, judging from appearances:)

*bookmarks for when I'm not moving rooms*

I was so gleeful when I found those pictures because srsly! And I was looking at other pics of Vino Bastian and Evan Sanders but in none other does it capture Sam's unfortunate hair and Dean's hair gel abuse half as well.

Hope the room move is going well. XD

Thanks! I am stuck in the not-knowing-where-I-want-the-furniture phase.

I really enjoyed the fics, in fact I was sad there wasn't more by the time I got to the end. I loved the feel for the dialog and the way you used "going back" and how it meant different things to the three characters, it felt very in-character, if that makes sense. Especially this:

Returning to Indonesia would not be a going back for Satrio; it would be just another going.

Just wanted to let you know that I recced your fics here (http://community.livejournal.com/sawedoff_recs/74263.html) at

sawedoff_recs.

:DDD! Thank you very much, bb! This glees me right up, all joyed up right here.

I wish I had something constructive to say about the Satrio and Dimas series, but I really don't. I enjoy it, and I find it fascinating and eye-(mind-)opening, but it is not as if I have anything to add to the discussion about it. I admit there is a part of me that exoticizes the characters in this form, even as I knead the reading into a more complex social context...that sort of goes hand in hand, I think. *ponders*

Which is my way of saying thanks for writing fic that makes me THINK. <3

More than de-exoticization, I value three-dimensionalizing. I know I'll continue to be othered and exoticized in various parts of my life, but if I can feel whole, that's cool.

Thank YOU for reading. :)

I know I'll continue to be othered and exoticized in various parts of my life, but if I can feel whole, that's cool.

....this actually solves a problem for me. As a sex-positive, pro-porn feminist, I'm often accused by other feminists of contributing to the objectification of women. Yet, to me, objectification is a hard-wired part of human sexuality, like it or not, and it not going to go away through simple "enlightenment". Like exoticizing "the Other", it is not going to stop because people find it upsetting. I've had troubles with balancing these issues, at a personal level, and I think this provides me something to chew on, philosophically: the interplay between being objectified and yet also being treated respectfully - that sense of being a whole person. I think it is possible, although I'm sure many will disagree, and I sure don't have proof. *chews on idea*

No no no! Thank YOU for writing! :)

My knee-jerk reaction to such things is usually how to make objectification and exoticization work for me, haha. One can be crafty about it.

While I can see where the anti-porn feminists are coming from, I am extremely wary of people who say "THIS is how to be a proper self-respecting woman, and if you're not this, then you are fail". Feminism, like democracy, can't just be copypasted or imported wholesale to other situations. I tend to get frustrated with some feminist arguments because they can get so whitewashed, or Yankwashed, Westwashed, whatever. Gender does not exist in a vacuum!

Your take on linguistics is fascinating. I really, really wish more people would write in languages other than English (even if that means I can't read it).

My point is that multilingualism is more the norm in Indonesia than it is in the USA, and I reckon part of it is because in Indonesia, it is not perceived to be a sign of foreignness.

Definitely, and it works out that way because the only languages being spoken fluently by a group larger than a few thousand people are new "immigrants" (quotes because often the border crossed the people, not the other way around) and America's xenophobia, oh lawd. Because the USA is so monolingual, I wonder if that is why people in my area take regionalisms, dialects, and code-switching very seriously? I was taught from the time I can remember that there is home-speak and everywhere else. Home-speak is a blend of purposeful accents, regionalisms, English, Cherokee, and a mix of the two.

I am also doing mudane_bingo and thanks for the heads up on

spnsupporting.

I can't seem to find it but somewhere on jhameia.com ('Intersectionality Dreaming') is a post that really struck a chord with me, about the difference in the attitudes of Chinese-American and mainland Chinese people about other groups borrowing from Chinese culture. It observes that the Chinese-Americans tend to be more defensive, whereas the mainland Chinese are more live and let live, or even enthusiastic. This is a generalization of course, and I'm probably glossing over key points, but your point about taking regionalisms seriously reminded me of it, and, like, for all the culturefail Supernatural likes to wallow in, there is still a part of me waiting to see an Indonesian tuyul or Filipino tikbalang as MOTW. Colonial mentality? At least a bit, I won't deny it. A few years ago, there was a WW2 movie with Joseph Fiennes and James Franco called 'The Great Raid' about a mission to rescue American soldiers from a Japanese POW camp in the Philippines. Manila ATE IT UP. They LOVED IT partly because their country and countrymen got to share screentime with big-name honkies. The Philippines' own WW2 stories are rich and tragic, but it was sidelined here and ppl were just happy that Hollywood was acknowledging us :-/. I mean, I went to watch that movie in theaters feeling very hopeful but ready for disappointment, and then unsurprising disappointment was unsurprising.

But back to taking regionalism seriously! Ya, I wonder if part of it is that Chinese culture in China (or any X culture in X, really) is ubiquitous and dominant and there's enough to go around, so to speak, so people get complacent about it. But here the culture is kind of shoved into a corner and jostling for space with itself and others. People hanging on tightest to what feels the most threatened. People relating to feeling wronged and bullied and different and belittled. It's almost like there's not enough identity to go around, so you hold on damn tight to yours, goddammit.

I am going through the mundane-bingo prompt masterlist and I am IN LOVE. How much do I love "food disasters: kicked off the bus for contraband durian"? If I don't get that for a bingo square, I might have to write it anyway.

for all the culturefail Supernatural likes to wallow in, there is still a part of me waiting to see an Indonesian tuyul or Filipino tikbalang as MOTW. Colonial mentality?

Maybe. If so, I partake as well. I've used Two-Face in my fic and I praised the use of Mocker Raven in a big bang last year. I was pissed as all hell (not that fandom noticed, because you don't crit the show!) that the Trickster became a Christian angel, because the trickster is a generic indigenous myth that a lot of people connected with on a show that showcases western/Christian horror and myth.

A few years ago, there was a WW2 movie with Joseph Fiennes and James Franco called 'The Great Raid' about a mission to rescue American soldiers from a Japanese POW camp in the Philippines. Manila ATE IT UP. They LOVED IT partly because their country and countrymen got to share screentime with big-name honkies. The Philippines' own WW2 stories are rich and tragic, but it was sidelined here and ppl were just happy that Hollywood was acknowledging us :-/. I mean, I went to watch that movie in theaters feeling very hopeful but ready for disappointment, and then unsurprising disappointment was unsurprising.

I know this phenomenon well. :/ I am unsurprised by it now, but children and elders are always excited to get something (anything) in which Hollywood recognizes us, etc. I went through it myself when Disney did Pocahontas. Ouch. It's difficult because I hate being the negative one but damn if this media is not incredibly problematic... and well, just awful most of the time. -sigh-

People hanging on tightest to what feels the most threatened. People relating to feeling wronged and bullied and different and belittled. It's almost like there's not enough identity to go around, so you hold on damn tight to yours, goddammit.

Yes. I want to explore this in a million words or less, because it's so true in just about every marginalized culture I've come in contact with, with friends and family and how it's almost a stage of identity that we don't grow out of.... on any level.

LOL! That is too awesome. I hope you got it. My card is pretty awesome. I got corn boiling which is definitely leading me to write more Ponca!John Winchester.

And then also Loki! Stop bogarting the whole archetype, Gabe.

Ya I vacillate between "omg it's us!" and "...omg is that us?" and then at some point it slips into "oh it's them". But I think I cling to the "omg it's us!" more than I should.

I HAVEN'T GOTTEN MY MUNDANE BINGO CARD YET, I AM VERY SAD. :((((((

I am really excited to see more of Satrio and Dimas. I'm not at all familiar with Indonesian or Sundanese, but it's actually easier switching between tabs to get the translations than it would be flipping back and forth between pages in a book. And I like the little translation notes, too - I've only studied mostly latinate/germanic languages, so it's really cool to get this glimpse of something I've never been exposed to before. I guess my reasons for reading Indonesian Winchesters are probably really different from your reasons for writing, but I think it's awesome, and I hope that's okay.

<3 Sure that's okay, engage with the narrative however you want. What are we, SPN wank or something? ;)

Indonesian has some Germanic and Latin roots too, considering the Dutch influence on it. Our words for office (kantor), carrot (wortel), sink (wastafel), and who knows how many more, are similar if not the same.

I think in the US it might vary a little bit depending on where you are. I mean, in the larger 'American Broadcast Culture' you're a hundred percent right about bilingual being a sign of foreign-ness. But I wonder if it would still hold true, for example, in regards to say certain parts of California or Texas. And then there are things like Cajun. Hmm.

My guess would be that it's a relatively recent development ('recent' as in, 'the last 150 years').

It all seems to come down to identity*...I'm thinking about the Californios and the Amish and their perspectives- and now I'm just thinking aloud (so to speak) so I'll stop. But it's an interesting thing to think about.

ETA : * by which I mean, of course it involves identity, but that's too deep an issue to think through quickly.

Edited 2010-07-12 03:13 (UTC)

Cajun, yes! I don't know enough about Louisiana and that region to know how the sociolinguistics work there. Also the Amish, omg now I am curious. All I know of them is that once I bought some fudge and jewelry from them.

I never commented on this! Because when you posted it I was only on like episode one and did not want to be SPOILED. But. But. omfg. You are right that it is kind of jarring to have people switching languages in SPN fic because SPN is all English all the time (except when there are random dead languages, or whatever) but I like it so much more this way. Also, Satrio and how going home would not be going home for him! D:

I am not usually a Samgirl, but in AUs, I favor him more, whether he is girl!Sam or Indonesian!Sam. I end up relating to him more? All things considered, I should've been a Samgirl from the beginning, but I dropped the ball on that hahaha.

And YES MORE STORIES WITH MORE LANGUAGES IN! There was a YA book recced to me that had different languages being represented in italics or lack of quotation marks. All still in one language though. I wish I could remember the book, I'm curious to see how this plays out.

You should have! What happened there, Lass? He has all the destiny and desire to be normal and where is home and everything! Of course I only started being a Samgirl around S3 so...

Ooooooh. That sounds really interesting! I don't remember ever reading anything like that.

And I skipped most of S3 the first time around because I was told the writers' strike made it shitty, and I was kind of impatient to get to S4 anyway, aha. So!

Twas weird! All the issues that endear Susan and Morgana to me I find meh in Sam. I was more intrigued by Dean's sense of duty and loyalty, and how he gets real petulant about it but also real hurt. Dean is kind of like... the Arthur and the Lucy? EVERYTHING IS OPPOSITES DAY IN SUPERNATURAL LAND. My defiance of destiny, home angst, and moving on from obsolete systems issues are Castiel-shaped.

Yeah, S3 was when I went from loving Dean to wanting him to get the fuck over everything already, and when Sam went from being whiny to being someone I was in love with. Because he is so like DEAN COME ON I DON'T WANT YOU TO DO CAN WE PLEASE JUST TALK LOOK I'LL MAKE CHRISTMAS HAPPEN FOR YOU ILU.

Dean is the Arthur! HOW VERY ODD, LASS.

Yanno, some people like to say that S4!Sam was not sympathetic, but I thought he was. I was kinda underwhelmed by whiny Sam, but a Sam who makes sketchy decisions to save the world is one I can get behind. Or maybe I'm mixing up sympathetic with interesting again. Another thing I've realized about my relationship (lol) with Sam is that I like him best when he is trying to run away, and when he fails to run away.

SHUT UP.

...the fusion would be too easy.

I liked S4 Sam. Like. I really was not annoyed by the demon blood plotline at all! I was like DRINK THAT BLOOD SAM I AM SURE IT WILL HELP, and he was so hopeless I couldn't blame him, and he just--did his best and it was never enough. Uh. Well, I found S1-2 Sam uninteresting and unsympathetic, so?

I like him best when he is trying to run away, and when he fails to run away
HE CAN NEVER LEAVE.

...I would read it anyway. Also have you read this (http://puella-nerdii.dreamwidth.org/110612.html)? It is the Great Dragon trying to make Merlin/Arthur happen.

Yessss, I totally thought Dean just needed to chill out, Sam's got dis, and omg your trust issues are ginormous. I know you have good reasons for ginormous trust issues, but seriously. Seriously Ruby's okay.

And then she wasn't :(

I found S1-2 Sam uninteresting and unsympathetic, so?
So high five. o/

I have not! Aww, dragonnnnn. WYRM HAVE YOU SEEN THOSE CRAZY MERLIN SPOILERS

Yeah, seriously! DAMNIT RUBY. Actually even looking back on it--I know we're supposed to feel like D: D: Sam you should have listened to Dean, but...I don't feel like that, I feel like Sam made the right choice and it turned out crappy, and that happens, and it sucks, but it's not his fault and people should leave him alone DEAN.

WHAT NO THERE ARE SPOILERS TELLLLLL

I AGREE WITH YOUR ASSESSMENT OF THE SITUATION

SPOILERS OMG http://www.farfarawaysite.com/merlin/season3/spoilers.htm

I'll just wait here then.

Something else I found while I was looking for the link, this guy retells myths and folk tales and is hilarious http://bettermyths.blogspot.com/

WHAT. WHAT. OMFG. NO. WHAT. THAT IS NOT EVEN. I DON'T.

MORGANA

GWEEEEEEN. GWEN HAS A BROTHER?! NO MORE MORGANA/GWEN!? MORGANA SLAPPING GWEN WHAT.

MORGANA TAKING OVER CAMELOT AND BEING EVIL WHAT. WHAT WHAT WHAT. MORGANA HOW ARE YOU AN EVIL ENCHANTRESS. I DON'T EVEN. WHAT. WHAT WHAT WHAT.

LASS HOW WHAT.

I KNOW I KNOW OMG I AM STILL BLOWN BY CANON KILLING GWEN/MORGANA or not, whatever, SHIPPERS WILL FIND A WAY BUT OMGGGG EVEN ANGEL SAID AT A CON THAT THE FRIENDSHIP BETWEEN GWEN AND MORGANA IS

OVER.

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAT

MY FEELINGS ARE CONFLICTED BECAUSE I THINK THIS COULD BE INTERESTING IN THE NARRATIVE BUT MY KNEEJERK IS STILL "NOOOOOOO MY GIRRRRRRLSSSS, you neeEEEeEEED EACH OTHER!! YOU L<3<3<3<3VE EACH OTHER!"

SHE SLAPPED HER

It's like bleak AU Merlin/Arthur mirroring because while the guys get closer, the girls are TOOOORRRRN APAAAAARRRRT. AND WHAT IS THIS THING ABOUT MORGANA AND MORGAUSE'S RELATIONSHIP CHANGING?! I HOPE THAT JUST MEANS THEY ARE CANONFAX DOING IT. lol

she slaaaaaaapped heeeerrrrrrrrrr

also i want more mordred.

I DON'T WANT IT TO BE OVER WHO WILL GWEN PICK FLOWERS FOR NOW AND WHO WILL HUG HER WHEN SHE IS DOWN AND WHO WILL COMFORT MORGANA IN HER NIGHTMARES don't say her sister THEY NEED TO BE TOGETHER 4EVER. I mean okay narratively maybe this is necessary and will work and also Morgana needs to renounce her friendships to be the Big Bad, she needs to be able to make everything about the personal HER VS UTHER thing because that will make her epic story happen. BUT BUT BUT YOU CAN'T SLAP GWEN SHE'S GWEN!

possibly they will be like psych! not sisters at all! NOW SLEEP TOGETHER lolz forever.

omfg me too. <3 mordred forever.

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Dimas and Satrio's Excellent Adventure

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